[LTER-mcm-pi] MCM-LTER collaborations - Re: Fwd: RE: Nora Richter - Lake Fryxell
Peter Doran
pdoran at lsu.edu
Thu Mar 10 10:02:57 MST 2016
Hi Rachael,
No need to feel badly at all. Apparently I met this guy some time ago
(see email trail below). Anyway, looks like he's eager to do a grant of
his own. My local guy says he can do this. Not a big fan of the trash
talk. Odd situation, but it's not an LTER issue anymore if he wants to
do a stand alone proposal. The only issue comes if he wants some of my
archived sample, which he can get through NSF. He's he's going to go
that route, I'd be better off collaborating. So would he, because
samples without context are no good to him. Don't know what I will do
because I want to support the assistant prof in my department who's
interested in doing this, but his lab's not ready yet
-Peter
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Collaboration on Lake Fryxell and Bonney
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 19:04:05 -0500
From: Huang, Yongsong <yongsong_huang at brown.edu>
To: Peter Doran <pdoran at lsu.edu>
Dear Peter:
Thanks. I know Guangsheng - he applied for a postdoc fellowship to work
with me but did not get it. He is not an organic geochemist by training
- he has used some organic geochemical methods in Yale, but I do not
think he has the organic chemistry background to work on biomarkers in
Antarctic lakes. These involve major methodology (in terms of developing
new analtycial methods, changing reactions and derivatization reagents
etc.), which is my specialty.
To be honest, the work done Jaraula is very poor. The chromatograms are
so ugly (I would never allow such chromatograms to publish from my
group) and major compounds in the sediments are not identified. If you
look at my publication record, you can see how well we are doing in
understanding alkenones including chemistry and biochemistry, and
biosynthesis. Nora has done some preliminary analysis on a couple of
surface samples from Rachel Morgan Kis. We are finding exciting new
things. We performed live cultures from an isolated Lake Bonney
haptophyte that is making alkenones.
Given my record on lake alkenones from the past 10 years, I really think
if we can write a joint proposal to the Antarctic program to obtain new
sediment cores and to do exciting new science. I have sufficient
preliminary data now, and can really justify the important science
questions to be answered.
I have been longing to work with you for a long time, if you still
remember my email to you 10 - 12 years ago.
Is there a good time I can give you a call to discuss? I will really
appreciate it.
Thanks,
Yongsong
On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 6:02 PM, Peter Doran <pdoran at lsu.edu> wrote:
Hi Yongsong,
Sorry for the delay in replying. It's been a very very busy period
and your email got buried deep. I had intended to reply. I also had to
do a search for Nora's email. I missed that one all together I'm afraid.
We collected sediment cores over 10 years ago which have been
heavily used for analysis in published papers. What's left of the cores
have been in a freezer with a questionable history for a very long time.
The Jaraula work you are probably familiar with was done under the
supervision of her adviser at UIC, Fabien Kenig. They worked from box
cores of the surface mats and I think he still has some of that, but not
sure.
We have a new young faculty here who discussed with me doing
alkenone and paleothermometry work well over a year ago when first
interviewing. He is still building his lab which apparently he is almost
finished (if you are ever finished building a lab). We have not yet
gotten to the point of assessing what the quality of my samples are
after so long. I'm obviously interested in supporting a young faculty in
my own department as a priority. I'm also open to other collaborations
if they are complimentary to our efforts. The new faculty is Guangsheng
Zhuang, and I'm sure he would be too. I will talk to him about this. I
hope this helps.
Thanks
-Peter
Peter T. Doran
Professor and John Franks Chair
Geology and Geophysics
Louisiana State University
E235 Howe Russell Geosciences Complex, Baton Rouge, LA 70803
office 2255783955 | fax 2255782302
Peter T. Doran
Professor and John Franks Chair
Geology and Geophysics
Louisiana State University
E235 Howe Russell Geosciences Complex, Baton Rouge, LA 70803
office 2255783955 | fax 2255782302
www.lsu.edu/science/geology/
On 3/10/16 10:27 AM, Rachael Morgan-Kiss wrote:
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> Thanks for the message. I feel pretty badly about it, given there is
> this odd guy harassing Peter. I sent samples to Linda Amaral-Zettler
> who both John and I have published with – I wouldn’t have sent the
> samples to some random person who I don’t know. However, the samples
> were for her student, Nora, who is obviously co-supervised by Huang.
> Also, in his email to Peter, he mentions that he has multiple water
> column and sediment samples from Lake Bonney and Lake Fryxell – I sent
> Linda a single sample from Fryxell (and a live algal sample). So
> either he has other sources for MCM samples or he wasn’t being
> accurate with Peter about what he has.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rachael.
>
> Rachael Morgan-Kiss
>
> Associate Professor of Microbial Ecology
>
> 700 E High St.
>
> Department of Microbiology
>
> Miami University
>
> Oxford OH
>
> Phone: 513-529-5434
>
> *From:* Michael Gooseff [mailto:michael.gooseff at colorado.edu
> <mailto:michael.gooseff at colorado.edu>]
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 10, 2016 10:42 AM
> *To:* Priscu, John <jpriscu at montana.edu <mailto:jpriscu at montana.edu>>;
> Peter Doran <pdoran at lsu.edu <mailto:pdoran at lsu.edu>>
> *Cc:* mcm-pi at lternet.edu <mailto:mcm-pi at lternet.edu>; Rachael
> Morgan-Kiss <morganr2 at miamioh.edu <mailto:morganr2 at miamioh.edu>>
> *Subject:* MCM-LTER collaborations - Re: [LTER-mcm-pi] Fwd: RE: Nora
> Richter - Lake Fryxell
> *Importance:* High
>
> Hi all,
>
> Firstly, Rachael, no worries about this overall. I think you were
> acting on the opportunity for a new collaboration, or at least trying
> to facilitate advancing science.
>
> This sort of request is not unlike the other one several of us
> received this past winter from the group that wants to do metagenomics
> work from all of our landscape units. We need to discuss how we
> handle these along with what it means to be a collaborator of our
> group. We do not want to be in the position of facilitating a bunch
> of unfunded science, which could be viewed as circumventing the NSF
> proposal process. You can do a LOT of science with just samples these
> days… Our activities (for us and on behalf of others) have to be
> related to our science and our hypotheses – i.e., what we are funded
> to do.
>
> We have to also remember that it is a privilege to work in the MDVs
> year after year, and with that privilege comes responsibility. It is
> no wonder that we get such inquiries – on some level it is recognition
> of our long history of excellence.
>
> I propose that we discuss this and try to hammer out a policy of some
> sort in BR next week and then we can pass it by Paul and/or Scott to
> make them aware of the issue, and also demonstrate that we are trying
> to be responsible.
>
> I re-crafted the identity of ‘collaborators’ and ‘investigators’ for
> the MCM5 proposal (based on what we had written in MCM4 largely), and
> the MCM5 PI group discussed both lists probably a month ago. See my
> notes here
> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Devp3ugH7KhzePtdfuiJFmUS-hD_uSVIYFBvK0YDa-Q/edit?usp=sharing>.
> I sent out invitations/confirmations to everyone on the 2 lists a few
> weeks ago and Inigo is working on updating our web page to reflect
> these folks.
>
> Cheers
>
> -Mike
>
> *From: *mcm-pi <mcm-pi-bounces at lists.lternet.edu
> <mailto:mcm-pi-bounces at lists.lternet.edu>> on behalf of "Priscu, John"
> <jpriscu at montana.edu <mailto:jpriscu at montana.edu>>
> *Date: *Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 7:04 AM
> *To: *Peter Doran <pdoran at lsu.edu <mailto:pdoran at lsu.edu>>
> *Cc: *"mcm-pi at lternet.edu <mailto:mcm-pi at lternet.edu>"
> <mcm-pi at lternet.edu <mailto:mcm-pi at lternet.edu>>
> *Subject: *Re: [LTER-mcm-pi] Fwd: RE: Nora Richter - Lake Fryxell
>
> I get a bad vibe too-very pushy and in your face
>
>
> On Mar 9, 2016, at 5:49 PM, Peter Doran <pdoran at lsu.edu
> <mailto:pdoran at lsu.edu>> wrote:
>
> We can talk about this, but in this case it was Rachael as a free
> agent providing samples. Not LTER.
>
> I wrote this guy back. He gives me a really bad vibe. Very
> boastful and quick to criticize everyone in his field, including
> my new junior colleague. The whole thing with his student is
> weird. I'll put him on hold for now and we can discuss next week.
> Looks like now they want to write a separate proposal to PLR
>
>
> Peter Doran, Professor and John Franks Chair
> Department of Geology and Geophysics
> E235 Howe Russell Geosciences Complex
> Louisiana State University
> Baton Rouge, Louisiana, USA 70803
>
> Ph: 225-578-3955 <tel:225-578-3955>
> Fx: 225-578-2302 <tel:225-578-2302>
>
> http://geology.lsu.edu/People/Faculty/item73533.html
>
>
> On Mar 9, 2016, at 6:36 PM, Priscu, John <jpriscu at montana.edu
> <mailto:jpriscu at montana.edu>> wrote:
>
> We need some kind of policy about handing out samples- or at
> least a way to track things. I remember addressing this issue
> in the past- if so, we should revisit it.
>
>
> On Mar 9, 2016, at 3:47 PM, Peter Doran <pdoran at lsu.edu
> <mailto:pdoran at lsu.edu>> wrote:
>
> Yeah, this is it. This is his student
>
> -------- Original Message --------
>
> *Subject: *
>
>
>
> RE: Nora Richter - Lake Fryxell
>
> *Date: *
>
>
>
> Fri, 6 Nov 2015 19:25:58 +0000
>
> *From: *
>
>
>
> Priscu, John <jpriscu at montana.edu>
> <mailto:jpriscu at montana.edu>
>
> *To: *
>
>
>
> Rachael Morgan-Kiss <morganr2 at miamioh.edu>
> <mailto:morganr2 at miamioh.edu>, Michael Gooseff
> <michael.gooseff at colorado.edu>
> <mailto:michael.gooseff at colorado.edu>
>
> *CC: *
>
>
>
> Gooseff, Michael <mgooseff at engr.colostate.edu>
> <mailto:mgooseff at engr.colostate.edu>, Berry Lyons
> <lyons.142 at osu.edu> <mailto:lyons.142 at osu.edu>, Peter
> Doran <pdoran at lsu.edu> <mailto:pdoran at lsu.edu>
>
>
>
>
> I told her (and her mentor; Dr Huang) that we will discuss
> this as a group in March and get back to her.
>
> *From:* Rachael Morgan-Kiss [mailto:morganr2 at miamioh.edu]
> *Sent:* Friday, November 06, 2015 10:47 AM
> *To:* Priscu, John <jpriscu at montana.edu>
> <mailto:jpriscu at montana.edu>; Michael Gooseff
> <michael.gooseff at colorado.edu>
> <mailto:michael.gooseff at colorado.edu>
> *Cc:* Gooseff, Michael <mgooseff at engr.colostate.edu>
> <mailto:mgooseff at engr.colostate.edu>; Berry Lyons
> <lyons.142 at osu.edu> <mailto:lyons.142 at osu.edu>; Peter
> Doran <pdoran at lsu.edu> <mailto:pdoran at lsu.edu>
> *Subject:* RE: Nora Richter - Lake Fryxell
>
> I was also thinking that because of the logistical
> efforts, this kind of sample collection could be
> coordinated with other research questions.
>
> Rachael Morgan-Kiss
>
> Associate Professor of Microbial Ecology
>
> 700 E High St.
>
> Department of Microbiology
>
> Miami University
>
> Oxford OH
>
> Phone: 513-529-5434
>
> *From:* Priscu, John [mailto:jpriscu at montana.edu
> <mailto:jpriscu at montana.edu>]
> *Sent:* Friday, November 06, 2015 12:00 PM
> *To:* Michael Gooseff <michael.gooseff at colorado.edu
> <mailto:michael.gooseff at colorado.edu>>; Rachael
> Morgan-Kiss <morganr2 at miamioh.edu
> <mailto:morganr2 at miamioh.edu>>
> *Cc:* Gooseff, Michael <mgooseff at engr.colostate.edu
> <mailto:mgooseff at engr.colostate.edu>>; Berry Lyons
> <lyons.142 at osu.edu <mailto:lyons.142 at osu.edu>>; Peter
> Doran <pdoran at lsu.edu <mailto:pdoran at lsu.edu>>
> *Subject:* RE: Nora Richter - Lake Fryxell
>
> Mike—if funded and we decide to support this field effort,
> it will take a lot of our time to get all of the permits,
> SIP requests, etc. As you will note in my response to
> Huang (which I forwarded a few minutes ago); they have no
> real hypothesis for us to consider. Just a bunch of
> measurements around ,in my opinion, a jumbled theme.
>
> John
>
> *From:* Michael Gooseff [mailto:michael.gooseff at colorado.edu]
> *Sent:* Friday, November 06, 2015 12:48 AM
> *To:* Rachael Morgan-Kiss <morganr2 at miamioh.edu
> <mailto:morganr2 at miamioh.edu>>; Priscu, John
> <jpriscu at montana.edu <mailto:jpriscu at montana.edu>>
> *Cc:* Gooseff, Michael <mgooseff at engr.colostate.edu
> <mailto:mgooseff at engr.colostate.edu>>; Berry Lyons
> <lyons.142 at osu.edu <mailto:lyons.142 at osu.edu>>; Peter
> Doran <pdoran at lsu.edu <mailto:pdoran at lsu.edu>>
> *Subject:* Re: Nora Richter - Lake Fryxell
>
> Greetings from McMurdo!
>
> Chris Fritsen got here a day ahead of us and it looks like
> Kelly is bringing down the NSB on Sunday. So, we’ll make
> sure to make everyone look good!
>
> The proposal she submitted was a GRFP, and it just went in
> this last month. So, it will be a while until she hears
> whether it’s funded.
>
> It takes serious cajones, in my opinion, to write that
> proposal with no access to the field site. I presume this
> will be a significant stumbling block to getting this
> funded – as Rachael points out, without a letter of support.
>
> So, how do we handle this?
>
> I think John is right, this is an ancillary project that
> is pretty significant. All of our students have dual
> roles down here – they have to do a set of things to keep
> the monitoring programs going and then they work in their
> science. If she came down, she would have to be on the
> limno team and provide that support. But, this seems like
> a lot of additional work to try to add in if she’s also on
> the limno team… I think it’s a reasonable response that
> you sent to her, John. I don’t know how this will shake
> out in our discussions in March, but if she doesn’t get
> her GRFP funded and we don’t give her a slot, April will
> be the deadline for her and her advisor to submit their
> own full blown proposal. I think we need to make a
> judgement about whether this is mission creep or not. If
> it can be linked to our MCM4 hypotheses, then it’s
> justifiable to bring her down and do this work. If not,
> then we’re taking the place of NSF by facilitating her
> research and that’s not a position we want to be in,
> particularly with the level of scrutiny that’s likely to
> be associated with the proposed work.
>
> Cheers
>
> Mike
>
> *From: *Rachael Morgan-Kiss <morganr2 at miamioh.edu
> <mailto:morganr2 at miamioh.edu>>
> *Date: *Friday, November 6, 2015 at 1:15 PM
> *To: *"Priscu, John" <jpriscu at montana.edu
> <mailto:jpriscu at montana.edu>>
> *Cc: *"Gooseff, Michael" <mgooseff at engr.colostate.edu
> <mailto:mgooseff at engr.colostate.edu>>, Berry Lyons
> <lyons.142 at osu.edu <mailto:lyons.142 at osu.edu>>, Peter
> Doran <pdoran at lsu.edu <mailto:pdoran at lsu.edu>>
> *Subject: *Re: Nora Richter - Lake Fryxell
>
> I'm surprised she didn't need at letter of support.
>
> From
>
> Rachael Kiss
>
>
> On Nov 5, 2015, at 6:31 PM, "Priscu, John"
> <jpriscu at montana.edu <mailto:jpriscu at montana.edu>> wrote:
>
> Sounds like she submitted a full proposal based on a
> lot of field work. We need to discuss next March.
>
> *From:* Rachael Morgan-Kiss [mailto:morganr2 at miamioh.edu]
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2015 2:24 PM
> *To:* Priscu, John <jpriscu at montana.edu
> <mailto:jpriscu at montana.edu>>; Gooseff, Michael
> <mgooseff at engr.colostate.edu
> <mailto:mgooseff at engr.colostate.edu>>; Berry Lyons
> <lyons.142 at osu.edu <mailto:lyons.142 at osu.edu>>; Peter
> Doran <pdoran at lsu.edu <mailto:pdoran at lsu.edu>>
> *Subject:* RE: Nora Richter - Lake Fryxell
>
> Hi John,
>
> I sent Nora some samples from Lake Fryxell as well as
> an Isochrysis that we isolated from Lake Bonney
> recently. She hasn’t mentioned to me that she had an
> interest in field work.
>
> Cheers
>
> Rachael.
>
> Rachael Morgan-Kiss
>
> Associate Professor of Microbial Ecology
>
> 700 E High St.
>
> Department of Microbiology
>
> Miami University
>
> Oxford OH
>
> Phone: 513-529-5434
>
> *From:* Priscu, John [mailto:jpriscu at montana.edu
> <mailto:jpriscu at montana.edu>]
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2015 3:21 PM
> *To:* Gooseff, Michael (mgooseff at engr.colostate.edu
> <mailto:mgooseff at engr.colostate.edu>)
> <mgooseff at engr.colostate.edu
> <mailto:mgooseff at engr.colostate.edu>>; Berry Lyons
> (lyons.142 at osu.edu <mailto:lyons.142 at osu.edu>)
> <lyons.142 at osu.edu <mailto:lyons.142 at osu.edu>>;
> Rachael Morgan-Kiss <morganr2 at miamioh.edu
> <mailto:morganr2 at miamioh.edu>>; Peter Doran
> (pdoran at lsu.edu <mailto:pdoran at lsu.edu>)
> <pdoran at lsu.edu <mailto:pdoran at lsu.edu>>
> *Subject:* FW: Nora Richter - Lake Fryxell
>
> FYI. These folks really want to get to the field. Her
> proposal says that they will collaborate with me and
> other colleagues to collect samples from Fryxell. I
> never said that I would do this and anyone I take has
> to be involved with all limno runs and sample analysis
> in McMurdo. Note that their proposed work will require
> a transect of sediment cores and water samples through
> Fryxell. This will require environmental paperwork
> showing that the cores will be collected cleanly,
> request for a corer, and meter resolution collection
> of water samples at each site (note that we only get a
> freshwater lens below the ice when there is
> streamflow—most of the time the ionic strength is
> greater just below the ice due to freeze segregation.
>
> Berry—seems like some of the isotope mixing data have
> been done previously.
>
> Rachael, have you promised her field time?
>
> I certainly cannot give up a slot on the limno team to
> accommodate this work.
>
> I will respond to her and let her know that we will
> discuss this at our spring meeting.
>
> Comments?
>
> John
>
> *From:* Richter, Nora [mailto:nora_richter at brown.edu]
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2015 9:17 AM
> *To:* Priscu, John <jpriscu at montana.edu
> <mailto:jpriscu at montana.edu>>
> *Subject:* Nora Richter - Lake Fryxell
>
> Dear Professor John Priscu,
>
> My name is Nora Richter, I am a first year graduate
> student in the Brown-MBL program and I am being
> co-advised by Yongsong Huang and Linda Amaral-Zettler
> for my thesis. Yongsong mentioned that he contacted
> you this past month about possible fieldwork options
> in Antarctica, and potentially collaborating with you
> and your team during the 2016-2017 field season.
>
> This year I intend to apply for travel funds to
> support my research at McMurdo, and I would also be
> willing to assist your research group in the 2016-2017
> field season if I am able to go. James W. Head is also
> part of my advising committee and has done work at
> McMurdo in the past; he has agreed to assist me with
> any additional planning. I have also conducted field
> work in the past in Svalbard, Greenland, and the Swiss
> Alps (I attached a copy of my CV).
>
> I recently applied for the NSF graduate student
> fellowship with my proposed project in Antarctica (see
> attached). Briefly, I intend to analyze haptophytes
> and alkenones from Lake Fryxell to assess species
> assemblages, alkenone production under extreme
> conditions, and use hydrogen and carbon isotopes to
> more accurately track changes in glacial melt. I am
> currently working on analyzing samples I received from
> Rachael Morgan-Kiss and Sarah Spaulding to better
> inform my project and hypotheses.
>
> I hope you will consider collaborating with me on this
> project and I look forward to hearing from you.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Nora Richter
>
> --
>
> Nora Richter
>
> PhD Student
>
> Department of Earth, Environmental, and Planetary Sciences
>
> Brown University - Marine Biological Laboratories
>
> nora_richter at brown.edu <mailto:nora_richter at brown.edu>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Long Term Ecological Research Network
> mcm-pi mailing list
> mcm-pi at lternet.edu <mailto:mcm-pi at lternet.edu>
>
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