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Carolyn's paper was pioneering. I sent Fabien the email and this was
his response:<br>
<br>
"He is an awkward number. He did some good work on Greenland lakes.
I like the "ugly chromatograms". Well, he might do better because
now we provided the warning that these compounds are highly
sensitive to degradation. We did one separation and did not have a
chance to improve it as we had no compounds left to to play with. <br>
<br>
I have no real opinion on this guy, but I have heard unusual, not
very good, comments from others. However, he seems friendly when you
meet him in person. <br>
<br>
The sole fact that he criticizes so openly our work, is not very
encouraging. The culture work they did could only be done because
Caroline and I worked on this project, found alkenones and
identified the organisms producing them. So without this paper with
"ugly chromatograms", he would have nothing. "<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/11/2016 8:31 AM, Priscu, John
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:4F27D682-6DB2-41B5-A625-0945F2117A25@montana.edu"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<div>The way he put down Caroline Jarula sucks and is highly
unprofessional. Weren't you an author on the paper?</div>
<div><br>
On Mar 10, 2016, at 5:06 PM, Peter Doran <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:pdoran@lsu.edu"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pdoran@lsu.edu">pdoran@lsu.edu</a></a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Diane suggests I talk to Paul tomorrow which is a good
idea. He may have a take he hasn't let on through email.
<br>
<br>
Over the last hour I've kind of flipped on the approach. I
have samples (maybe) and a new young colleague who wants to do
the work and is quite capable of the doing the analysis. We
agreed to collaborate long before Huang got into this and we
only haven't started yet because my colleague is finishing
building his lab. I think there is justification to ask for
e.g. a year to work with the samples in hand. Why should a
young assistant professor be denied this work because this
more senior guy is pushing the system?<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Peter T. Doran
Professor and John Franks Chair
Geology and Geophysics
Louisiana State University
E235 Howe Russell Geosciences Complex, Baton Rouge, LA 70803
office 2255783955 | fax 2255782302
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.lsu.edu/science/geology/">www.lsu.edu/science/geology/</a></pre>
<br>
On 3/10/16 5:52 PM, Michael Gooseff wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:D0D27B09-9253-4E05-8A1C-2D36ACBC7E64@colorado.edu"
type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div>After you are done setting up his next big paper
and career, I have some data you could crunch…</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt;
text-align: left; color: black; border-width: 1pt medium
medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color:
rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color
-moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<span style="font-weight: bold;">From: </span>mcm-pi
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mcm-pi-bounces@lists.lternet.edu">mcm-pi-bounces@lists.lternet.edu</a>>
on behalf of Peter Doran <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pdoran@lsu.edu">pdoran@lsu.edu</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">Date: </span>Thursday,
March 10, 2016 at 3:24 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">To: </span>"<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mcm-pi@lists.lternet.edu"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mcm-pi@lists.lternet.edu">mcm-pi@lists.lternet.edu</a></a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mcm-pi@lists.lternet.edu">mcm-pi@lists.lternet.edu</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject: </span>[LTER-mcm-pi]
Fwd: Re: Collaboration on Lake Fryxell and Bonney<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">This guy is really
pushy. Here's a draft (not sending until tomorrow) of
my response to him in case you want to follow the
saga. I'd also like input since he's now involved
Paul. This is much more wordy than my initial idea for
a response which just involved a few colorful words...<br>
<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------
<table class="moz-email-headers-table" border="0"
cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap"
valign="BASELINE">Subject: </th>
<td>Re: Collaboration on Lake Fryxell and Bonney</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap"
valign="BASELINE">Date: </th>
<td>Thu, 10 Mar 2016 16:17:40 -0600</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap"
valign="BASELINE">From: </th>
<td>Peter Doran <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:pdoran@lsu.edu">
<pdoran@lsu.edu></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap"
valign="BASELINE">To: </th>
<td>Huang, Yongsong <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yongsong_huang@brown.edu">
<yongsong_huang@brown.edu></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap"
valign="BASELINE">CC: </th>
<td>Cutler, Paul M <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:pcutler@nsf.gov">
<pcutler@nsf.gov></a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
Hi Huang,<br>
<br>
As I said, I'm always open to collaboration, but I am
also trying to keep a promise to a young career
scientist to collaborate with him on similar work. But
having just talked to Guangsheng, we can try to do
complimentary work and more process type stuff. He is
quite confident in his ability to do the alkenone
paleothermometry work after his two year Postdoc at
Yale with Mark Pagani who he still collaborates with.
So we will work in parallel once his lab is
established in a month or so.<br>
<br>
More to the point though is the complete unknown state
of the sediment "archive". I really have no idea what
is left. It's been a long time since I laid eyes on
any of these samples and there's been a move across
the country in the mean time, a few freezer failures
and some cleaning house during the move (NSF does not
have rules on archiving samples, but also sometimes
the reality of long term sample storage with no budget
for it, is not a good reality). I'll have to get
someone to check on what we have. The Bonney sediment
cores were not really sediment cores at all, but dirty
salt cores. I know we do not have anything from West
Lobe Bonney and East Lobe Bonney is probably scarce
and patchy since we had to use a lot of it to do the
analysis we have already done. There is also no real
chronological control on those sediments - my guess is
they are a few thousand years old at best (and that's
what we published in Wagner et al. 2010) so do not
meet your needs. Fryxell holds the most promise and we
will check on those sediments, but I can give no
promises that we still have samples spanning the full
record. Plus, even with Fryxell, with the radiocarbon
reservoir issues, I view the chronology with a grain
of salt.
<br>
<br>
All the best<br>
-Peter<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Peter T. Doran
Professor and John Franks Chair
Geology and Geophysics
Louisiana State University
E235 Howe Russell Geosciences Complex, Baton Rouge, LA 70803
office 2255783955 | fax 2255782302
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.lsu.edu/science/geology/">www.lsu.edu/science/geology/</a></pre>
<br>
On 3/10/16 2:25 PM, Huang, Yongsong wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHO_LY8q6hC-e0T4EYpQfvB=_-WdJY37j7A+fgf--VBiRxQ4Eg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Dear Peter:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I had a nice conversation with Paul this
morning. He told me about his recent contact
with you regarding our sample requests for Lake
Fryxell. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As I mentioned repeatedly, I am very
interested in collaborating with you on Fryxell
and Bonney, and we have been working on
generating preliminary data from the lakes. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Paul assured me that it is NSF policy that
samples sponsored by federal grants should be
utilized to the maximum to get new science
discoveries. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>To test a set of novel alkenone based proxies
that we discovered, Lake Fryxell core sediments
provide irreplaceable opportunities for our
investigation. We need ~ a dozen samples that go
through the glacial to interglacial periods.
Your existing samples as you mentioned are just
fine for our purpose. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We will be happy to have you as a co-author
on our papers from these samples. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yongsong</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at
8:05 PM, Huang, Yongsong <span dir="ltr">
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:yongsong_huang@brown.edu"
target="_blank">yongsong_huang@brown.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:
0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">Peter:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I also do have a specific scientific
reason to use the sediment cores from
Fryxell and Bonney for calibration a new
alkenone based proxy we discovered. No
other lakes have the special features like
Fryxell and Bonney that meet our need. We
do not need super clear history for the
sediments, all we need is that they span
the long history for the past 40,000
years. A dozen samples from different
stratigraphic horizons will meet our
needs. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Storage in freezer will not affect our
analyses at all. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It will be great if we talk on the
phone. I think collaboration will be
mutually beneficial. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yongsong</div>
</font></span></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On
Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 6:02 PM, Peter Doran
<span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pdoran@lsu.edu"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pdoran@lsu.edu">pdoran@lsu.edu</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</span>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204,
204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div text="#000000"
bgcolor="#ffffff">Hi Yongsong,<br>
<br>
Sorry for the delay in replying.
It's been a very very busy period
and your email got buried deep. I
had intended to reply. I also had
to do a search for Nora's email. I
missed that one all together I'm
afraid.<br>
<br>
We collected sediment cores over
10 years ago which have been
heavily used for analysis in
published papers. What's left of
the cores have been in a freezer
with a questionable history for a
very long time. The Jaraula work
you are probably familiar with was
done under the supervision of her
adviser at UIC, Fabien Kenig. They
worked from box cores of the
surface mats and I think he still
has some of that, but not sure.<br>
<br>
We have a new young faculty here
who discussed with me doing
alkenone and paleothermometry work
well over a year ago when first
interviewing. He is still building
his lab which apparently he is
almost finished (if you are ever
finished building a lab). We have
not yet gotten to the point of
assessing what the quality of my
samples are after so long. I'm
obviously interested in supporting
a young faculty in my own
department as a priority. I'm also
open to other collaborations if
they are complimentary to our
efforts. The new faculty is
Guangsheng Zhuang, and I'm sure he
would be too. I will talk to him
about this. I hope this helps.<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
-Peter<br>
<pre cols="72">Peter T. Doran
Professor and John Franks Chair
Geology and Geophysics
Louisiana State University
E235 Howe Russell Geosciences Complex, Baton Rouge, LA 70803
office <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:2255783955" value="+12255783955" target="_blank">2255783955</a> | fax <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:2255782302" value="+12255782302" target="_blank">2255782302</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.lsu.edu/science/geology/" target="_blank">www.lsu.edu/science/geology/</a></pre>
<div>
<div><br>
On 2/24/16 10:11 AM, Huang,
Yongsong wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Dear Peter:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My graduate student
Nora Richter contacted
you a while ago about
the collaborations on
Lake Fryxell and
Bonney. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would like to
provide some background
about my research group
and why we are so
interested in Dry Valley
lakes. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My research group has
been very active in
studying cold norther
hemisphere lakes
including those from
Greenland, Arctic Alaska
and Tibetan Plateau.
Here is the abstract for
my NSF Alaska grant: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward?AWD_ID=1503846&HistoricalAwards=false"
style="font-size:
12.8px;"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward?AWD_ID=1503846&HistoricalAwards=false">https://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward?AWD_ID=1503846&HistoricalAwards=false</a></a><span
style="font-size:
12.8px;">.</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:
12.8px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:
12.8px;">We have been
actively publishing
alkenones in lakes for
the past decade and I
would not be ashamed
to say, currently, my
group is the best in
the world in terms of
our understanding of
lacustrine alkenones
and their application
for paleoclimate and
paleoecological
applications. We also
developed major
technical expertise on
studying these
compounds and have
ability to
unambiguously identify
alkenone double bond
positions - there were
major problems with
old methodologies and
hence many papers
publish only tentative
identification of
double bond positions
(such as Caroline
Jaraula paper in
organic geochemistry
on tentative
identification of
penta unsaturated
alkenones). I also
work with Linda Amaral
at Marine Biological
Lab closely (she is
expert on DNA
sequencing, and has
state of the art
facilities). My lab is
a full scale organic
geochemistry lab with
all gas and liquid
chromatography and
mass spectrometry and
isotope ratio mass
spectrometry (I have
four mass
spectrometers): few
organic geochemistry
labs in the U.S. have
the scale of
analytical capability
as in my lab. </span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:
12.8px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:
12.8px;">Here is our
in press paper on lake
alkenones: </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0016703716300576"
style="font-size:
12.8px;"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0016703716300576">http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0016703716300576</a></a>.
We will publish a
cluster of papers this
year since we have made
major multiple
breakthrough discoveries
in the area. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you are
interested, you can find
my full paper list in my
google citation page: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=xel8cGsAAAAJ&hl=en"
style="font-size:
12.8px;"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=xel8cGsAAAAJ&hl=en">https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=xel8cGsAAAAJ&hl=en</a></a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sorry these may look
like I am bragging.
However, it has been
really difficult to
convince experts like
you on Antarctic lakes
that we can really
contribute to the
science in ways no other
research group can. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We have already
carried out initial work
on Lake Fryxell and Lake
Bonney sediment and
water column samples,
and found fascinating
new things - we can
publish a paper, even
just based on our data
now. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I will be really keen
to talk to you on the
phone. I really would
like to work on sediment
cores from Fryxell and
Bonney, and can assure
you we will make major
new discoveries in
collaboration with you. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks a lot,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yongsong</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-- <br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Dr.
Yongsong Huang<br>
Professor<br>
Department of Earth,
Environmental and
Planetary Sciences<br>
Brown University<br>
Providence , Rhode
Island 02912<br>
U.S.A.<br>
<br>
Tel: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:401-863-3822" value="+14018633822" target="_blank">
401-863-3822</a><br>
Email: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Yongsong_Huang@brown.edu" target="_blank">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Yongsong_Huang@brown.edu">Yongsong_Huang@brown.edu</a></a><br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://brown.edu/Departments/Geology/people/facultypage.php?id=1106969965"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://brown.edu/Departments/Geology/people/facultypage.php?id=1106969965">http://brown.edu/Departments/Geology/people/facultypage.php?id=1106969965</a></a><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Dr. Yongsong Huang<br>
Professor<br>
Department of Earth, Environmental
and Planetary Sciences<br>
Brown University<br>
Providence , Rhode Island 02912<br>
U.S.A.<br>
<br>
Tel: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:401-863-3822"
value="+14018633822"
target="_blank">
401-863-3822</a><br>
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Yongsong_Huang@brown.edu"
target="_blank">
Yongsong_Huang@brown.edu</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://brown.edu/Departments/Geology/people/facultypage.php?id=1106969965"
target="_blank">http://brown.edu/Departments/Geology/people/facultypage.php?id=1106969965</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">Dr. Yongsong Huang<br>
Professor<br>
Department of Earth, Environmental and
Planetary Sciences<br>
Brown University<br>
Providence , Rhode Island 02912<br>
U.S.A.<br>
<br>
Tel: 401-863-3822<br>
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Yongsong_Huang@brown.edu"
target="_blank">
Yongsong_Huang@brown.edu</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://brown.edu/Departments/Geology/people/facultypage.php?id=1106969965"
target="_blank">http://brown.edu/Departments/Geology/people/facultypage.php?id=1106969965</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</span></blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>Long Term Ecological Research Network</span><br>
<span>mcm-pi mailing list</span><br>
<span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mcm-pi@lternet.edu">mcm-pi@lternet.edu</a></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Peter T. Doran
Professor and John Franks Chair
Department of Geology and Geophysics
E235 Howe Russell Geosciences Complex
Louisiana State University
Baton Rouge, LA 70803
Ph: 225-578-3955
fx: 225-578-2302
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.lsu.edu/science/geology/people/faculty/doran.php">http://www.lsu.edu/science/geology/people/faculty/doran.php</a>
</pre>
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