<p dir="ltr">Peter, I totally agree. Collegiality is one thing but this person is behaving in a way that would make me very reluctant to work with.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mar 10, 2016 7:06 PM, "Peter Doran" <<a href="mailto:pdoran@lsu.edu">pdoran@lsu.edu</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Diane suggests I talk to Paul tomorrow which is a good idea. He may
have a take he hasn't let on through email. <br>
<br>
Over the last hour I've kind of flipped on the approach. I have
samples (maybe) and a new young colleague who wants to do the work
and is quite capable of the doing the analysis. We agreed to
collaborate long before Huang got into this and we only haven't
started yet because my colleague is finishing building his lab. I
think there is justification to ask for e.g. a year to work with the
samples in hand. Why should a young assistant professor be denied
this work because this more senior guy is pushing the system?<br>
<pre cols="72">Peter T. Doran
Professor and John Franks Chair
Geology and Geophysics
Louisiana State University
E235 Howe Russell Geosciences Complex, Baton Rouge, LA 70803
office <a href="tel:2255783955" value="+12255783955" target="_blank">2255783955</a> | fax <a href="tel:2255782302" value="+12255782302" target="_blank">2255782302</a>
<a href="http://www.lsu.edu/science/geology/" target="_blank">www.lsu.edu/science/geology/</a></pre>
<br>
On 3/10/16 5:52 PM, Michael Gooseff wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div>After you are done setting up his next big paper and
career, I have some data you could crunch…</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:12pt;text-align:left;color:black;border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181,196,223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>mcm-pi <<a href="mailto:mcm-pi-bounces@lists.lternet.edu" target="_blank">mcm-pi-bounces@lists.lternet.edu</a>>
on behalf of Peter Doran <<a href="mailto:pdoran@lsu.edu" target="_blank">pdoran@lsu.edu</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday, March
10, 2016 at 3:24 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"<a href="mailto:mcm-pi@lists.lternet.edu" target="_blank">mcm-pi@lists.lternet.edu</a>"
<<a href="mailto:mcm-pi@lists.lternet.edu" target="_blank">mcm-pi@lists.lternet.edu</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>[LTER-mcm-pi]
Fwd: Re: Collaboration on Lake Fryxell and Bonney<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">This guy is really
pushy. Here's a draft (not sending until tomorrow) of my
response to him in case you want to follow the saga. I'd
also like input since he's now involved Paul. This is much
more wordy than my initial idea for a response which just
involved a few colorful words...<br>
<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">Subject:
</th>
<td>Re: Collaboration on Lake Fryxell and Bonney</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">Date:
</th>
<td>Thu, 10 Mar 2016 16:17:40 -0600</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">From:
</th>
<td>Peter Doran <a href="mailto:pdoran@lsu.edu" target="_blank"><pdoran@lsu.edu></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">To:
</th>
<td>Huang, Yongsong <a href="mailto:yongsong_huang@brown.edu" target="_blank">
<yongsong_huang@brown.edu></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap valign="BASELINE">CC:
</th>
<td>Cutler, Paul M <a href="mailto:pcutler@nsf.gov" target="_blank">
<pcutler@nsf.gov></a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
Hi Huang,<br>
<br>
As I said, I'm always open to collaboration, but I am also
trying to keep a promise to a young career scientist to
collaborate with him on similar work. But having just talked
to Guangsheng, we can try to do complimentary work and more
process type stuff. He is quite confident in his ability to
do the alkenone paleothermometry work after his two year
Postdoc at Yale with Mark Pagani who he still collaborates
with. So we will work in parallel once his lab is
established in a month or so.<br>
<br>
More to the point though is the complete unknown state of
the sediment "archive". I really have no idea what is left.
It's been a long time since I laid eyes on any of these
samples and there's been a move across the country in the
mean time, a few freezer failures and some cleaning house
during the move (NSF does not have rules on archiving
samples, but also sometimes the reality of long term sample
storage with no budget for it, is not a good reality). I'll
have to get someone to check on what we have. The Bonney
sediment cores were not really sediment cores at all, but
dirty salt cores. I know we do not have anything from West
Lobe Bonney and East Lobe Bonney is probably scarce and
patchy since we had to use a lot of it to do the analysis we
have already done. There is also no real chronological
control on those sediments - my guess is they are a few
thousand years old at best (and that's what we published in
Wagner et al. 2010) so do not meet your needs. Fryxell holds
the most promise and we will check on those sediments, but I
can give no promises that we still have samples spanning the
full record. Plus, even with Fryxell, with the radiocarbon
reservoir issues, I view the chronology with a grain of
salt.
<br>
<br>
All the best<br>
-Peter<br>
<pre cols="72">Peter T. Doran
Professor and John Franks Chair
Geology and Geophysics
Louisiana State University
E235 Howe Russell Geosciences Complex, Baton Rouge, LA 70803
office <a href="tel:2255783955" value="+12255783955" target="_blank">2255783955</a> | fax <a href="tel:2255782302" value="+12255782302" target="_blank">2255782302</a>
<a href="http://www.lsu.edu/science/geology/" target="_blank">www.lsu.edu/science/geology/</a></pre>
<br>
On 3/10/16 2:25 PM, Huang, Yongsong wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Dear Peter:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I had a nice conversation with Paul this morning.
He told me about his recent contact with you regarding
our sample requests for Lake Fryxell. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As I mentioned repeatedly, I am very interested in
collaborating with you on Fryxell and Bonney, and we
have been working on generating preliminary data from
the lakes. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Paul assured me that it is NSF policy that samples
sponsored by federal grants should be utilized to the
maximum to get new science discoveries. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>To test a set of novel alkenone based proxies that
we discovered, Lake Fryxell core sediments provide
irreplaceable opportunities for our investigation. We
need ~ a dozen samples that go through the glacial to
interglacial periods. Your existing samples as you
mentioned are just fine for our purpose. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We will be happy to have you as a co-author on our
papers from these samples. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yongsong</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 8:05 PM,
Huang, Yongsong <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:yongsong_huang@brown.edu" target="_blank">yongsong_huang@brown.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Peter:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I also do have a specific scientific reason
to use the sediment cores from Fryxell and
Bonney for calibration a new alkenone based
proxy we discovered. No other lakes have the
special features like Fryxell and Bonney that
meet our need. We do not need super clear
history for the sediments, all we need is that
they span the long history for the past 40,000
years. A dozen samples from different
stratigraphic horizons will meet our needs. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Storage in freezer will not affect our
analyses at all. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It will be great if we talk on the phone. I
think collaboration will be mutually
beneficial. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<span><font color="#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yongsong</div>
</font></span></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><span>On Wed,
Mar 9, 2016 at 6:02 PM, Peter Doran
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pdoran@lsu.edu" target="_blank">pdoran@lsu.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</span>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">Hi
Yongsong,<br>
<br>
Sorry for the delay in replying. It's
been a very very busy period and your
email got buried deep. I had intended to
reply. I also had to do a search for
Nora's email. I missed that one all
together I'm afraid.<br>
<br>
We collected sediment cores over 10
years ago which have been heavily used
for analysis in published papers. What's
left of the cores have been in a freezer
with a questionable history for a very
long time. The Jaraula work you are
probably familiar with was done under
the supervision of her adviser at UIC,
Fabien Kenig. They worked from box cores
of the surface mats and I think he still
has some of that, but not sure.<br>
<br>
We have a new young faculty here who
discussed with me doing alkenone and
paleothermometry work well over a year
ago when first interviewing. He is still
building his lab which apparently he is
almost finished (if you are ever
finished building a lab). We have not
yet gotten to the point of assessing
what the quality of my samples are after
so long. I'm obviously interested in
supporting a young faculty in my own
department as a priority. I'm also open
to other collaborations if they are
complimentary to our efforts. The new
faculty is Guangsheng Zhuang, and I'm
sure he would be too. I will talk to him
about this. I hope this helps.<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
-Peter<br>
<pre cols="72">Peter T. Doran
Professor and John Franks Chair
Geology and Geophysics
Louisiana State University
E235 Howe Russell Geosciences Complex, Baton Rouge, LA 70803
office <a href="tel:2255783955" value="+12255783955" target="_blank">2255783955</a> | fax <a href="tel:2255782302" value="+12255782302" target="_blank">2255782302</a>
<a href="http://www.lsu.edu/science/geology/" target="_blank">www.lsu.edu/science/geology/</a></pre>
<div>
<div><br>
On 2/24/16 10:11 AM, Huang, Yongsong
wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Dear Peter:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My graduate student Nora
Richter contacted you a while
ago about the collaborations
on Lake Fryxell and Bonney. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would like to provide
some background about my
research group and why we are
so interested in Dry Valley
lakes. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My research group has been
very active in studying cold
norther hemisphere lakes
including those from
Greenland, Arctic Alaska and
Tibetan Plateau. Here is the
abstract for my NSF Alaska
grant: <a href="https://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward?AWD_ID=1503846&HistoricalAwards=false" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">https://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward?AWD_ID=1503846&HistoricalAwards=false</a><span style="font-size:12.8px">.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">We have been
actively publishing
alkenones in lakes for the
past decade and I would not
be ashamed to say,
currently, my group is the
best in the world in terms
of our understanding of
lacustrine alkenones and
their application for
paleoclimate and
paleoecological
applications. We also
developed major technical
expertise on studying these
compounds and have ability
to unambiguously identify
alkenone double bond
positions - there were major
problems with old
methodologies and hence many
papers publish only
tentative identification of
double bond positions (such
as Caroline Jaraula paper in
organic geochemistry on
tentative identification of
penta unsaturated
alkenones). I also work with
Linda Amaral at Marine
Biological Lab closely (she
is expert on DNA sequencing,
and has state of the art
facilities). My lab is a
full scale organic
geochemistry lab with all
gas and liquid
chromatography and mass
spectrometry and isotope
ratio mass spectrometry (I
have four mass
spectrometers): few organic
geochemistry labs in the
U.S. have the scale of
analytical capability as in
my lab. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Here is our in
press paper on lake
alkenones: </span><a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0016703716300576" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0016703716300576</a>.
We will publish a cluster of
papers this year since we have
made major multiple
breakthrough discoveries in
the area. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you are interested, you
can find my full paper list in
my google citation page: <a href="https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=xel8cGsAAAAJ&hl=en" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=xel8cGsAAAAJ&hl=en</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sorry these may look like I
am bragging. However, it has
been really difficult to
convince experts like you on
Antarctic lakes that we can
really contribute to the
science in ways no other
research group can. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We have already carried out
initial work on Lake Fryxell
and Lake Bonney sediment and
water column samples, and
found fascinating new things -
we can publish a paper, even
just based on our data now. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I will be really keen to
talk to you on the phone. I
really would like to work on
sediment cores from Fryxell
and Bonney, and can assure you
we will make major new
discoveries in collaboration
with you. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks a lot,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yongsong</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-- <br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Dr. Yongsong
Huang<br>
Professor<br>
Department of Earth,
Environmental and
Planetary Sciences<br>
Brown University<br>
Providence , Rhode Island
02912<br>
U.S.A.<br>
<br>
Tel: <a href="tel:401-863-3822" value="+14018633822" target="_blank">
401-863-3822</a><br>
Email: <a href="mailto:Yongsong_Huang@brown.edu" target="_blank">
Yongsong_Huang@brown.edu</a><br>
<a href="http://brown.edu/Departments/Geology/people/facultypage.php?id=1106969965" target="_blank">http://brown.edu/Departments/Geology/people/facultypage.php?id=1106969965</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Dr. Yongsong Huang<br>
Professor<br>
Department of Earth, Environmental and
Planetary Sciences<br>
Brown University<br>
Providence , Rhode Island 02912<br>
U.S.A.<br>
<br>
Tel: <a href="tel:401-863-3822" value="+14018633822" target="_blank">
401-863-3822</a><br>
Email: <a href="mailto:Yongsong_Huang@brown.edu" target="_blank">
Yongsong_Huang@brown.edu</a><br>
<a href="http://brown.edu/Departments/Geology/people/facultypage.php?id=1106969965" target="_blank">http://brown.edu/Departments/Geology/people/facultypage.php?id=1106969965</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Dr. Yongsong Huang<br>
Professor<br>
Department of Earth, Environmental and Planetary
Sciences<br>
Brown University<br>
Providence , Rhode Island 02912<br>
U.S.A.<br>
<br>
Tel: <a href="tel:401-863-3822" value="+14018633822" target="_blank">401-863-3822</a><br>
Email: <a href="mailto:Yongsong_Huang@brown.edu" target="_blank">
Yongsong_Huang@brown.edu</a><br>
<a href="http://brown.edu/Departments/Geology/people/facultypage.php?id=1106969965" target="_blank">http://brown.edu/Departments/Geology/people/facultypage.php?id=1106969965</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Long Term Ecological Research Network<br>
mcm-pi mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:mcm-pi@lternet.edu">mcm-pi@lternet.edu</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div>