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</head><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">Hi Folks,<br>
<br>
I first heard about the data center idea on a NISAC call late spring.
At the time, there were only a few IMs involved and I believe they
received an EAGER to investigate the idea. My first impression was this
is an interesting idea, but I was not very excited by it because from
what I heard I did not feel like this model was conceieved to serve
science, rather it seemed it was aimed to simply maintain IM and take
advantage of an opening. However, I figured this is just in the
planning stage and maybe it would grow into something, maybe even become
visionary. The docs that Peter Groffman sent around show that ideas
have grown and some of the ideas seem useful, but I am still concerned
that this model would not be science driven. For example the GC would
only have 2 science PIs on it. Furthermore, I was seriously concerned
that much of the proposed work would be to maintain really outdated,
clumsy infrastructure. In general, I see little vision here. I would
like to see something that specifically addresses weaknesses in the
tools we have available to us and paint a picture of what could be
improved, what specific services would be provided etc. I worry about
this because I thought the data center would go out for competition, and
maybe I am wrong about this, but it seems like NSF is quickly moving
towards this model. If these folks are going to be given this
opportunity, I think they need to tell us specifically what they will do
and support. A strength of their proposal is to support network IMs to
develop tools, but with no specifics and no direction given,
prioritization and effectiveness is a concern. Finally, I think we
would get a better conceived data center if this went out for
competitive RFP. Ultimately, the award may be to the same folks, but
the current model they propose is heavy on corporate structure, but
light on ideas of how to serve science.<br>
<br>
Tina<br>
<blockquote style="border: 0px none;"
cite="mid:9F44429E-0855-45A8-8392-F5CA1B908E6F@colorado.edu" type="cite">
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<font color="#9FA2A5"><span style="padding-left:6px">July 28, 2015
2:42 AM</span></font></div></div></div>
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Thanks for these thoughts and perspective, Inigo. Certainly this is a
bit more of an insider’s view than the rest of us have.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">While I still am not crystal clear on the details of the
proposed vision, one aspect that seems to underlie this effort is a
common IM or db architecture for all sites (correct me if I’m wrong).
That’s potentially a significant challenge to any
site that does not already have an architecture that is similar to one
that is being proposed (or would emerge) as the overhead costs required
to shift to a different system would be steep and have to come out of
the site grants (I presume, unless funding
was provided by NSF for a one-time effort to get all sites on a common
track). On the ‘user’ end, if the way data was provided changed
signicantly (i.e., formatting or grouping), then there’s a potential set
of challenges to users within and beyond the network
that rely on data.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Perhaps I’m mis-understanding and the goal is not to
change all site IM architectures but provide an efficient core services
system that has a master db for all sites and much of the technichal
detail about that master system are the subject of
debate within the IM group. If that’s the case, then the challenge
comes back to site IM support having to interface/support both their
site systems and the main core system. That is, having to work with
potentially different db formats, etc. That still
represents a bit of inefficiency that is likely paid by most site
grants, and probably also represents the current approach. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I think that the evolution of 25+ site IM approaches over
20+ years puts us in a challenging space if the goal is to have common
architectures across all sites, and as a network we will have to balance
the investments in IM efficiencies with site
needs and contexts. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">cheers</div>
<div class="">-Mike</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div class="">-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-</div>
<div class="">Michael Gooseff, Associate Professor</div>
<div class="">Institute of Arctic and Alpine Research</div>
<div class="">Civil, Architectural, and Environmental Engineering</div>
<div class="">University of Colorado</div>
<div class="">Boulder, CO 80309-0450</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class=""
href="mailto:michael.gooseff@colorado.edu">michael.gooseff@colorado.edu</a></div>
<div class="">web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class=""
href="http://goosefflab.weebly.com/">http://goosefflab.weebly.com</a> </div>
</div>
phone: 303.735.5333</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
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<br class="">
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<br class="">
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<div>_______________________________________________<br>Long Term
Ecological Research Network<br>mcm-pi mailing list<br><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mcm-pi@lternet.edu">mcm-pi@lternet.edu</a><br></div></div>
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<font color="#9FA2A5"><span style="padding-left:6px">July 27, 2015
10:05 AM</span></font></div></div></div>
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<br>
Hi all,<br>
<br>
I am quite involved in the Information Manager ( IM ) led proposal
for a LTER Data Center; I started paying complete attention as
soon as I heard Saran Twombly was considering plans by the LTER
IMs on the next LNO Data Center (in lieu of a formal RFP). Since
Mike invited me to chime in ( thanks! ) I am taking the
opportunity to weight in on the IM led developments and also
express some alternate ideas here.<br>
<br>
In summary - The IM plans presented to Mike and the EB here, and
the ideas behind these plans reflect continuity. While
continuity may sound great for LTER, in my opinion it is also a
missed opportunity to make the LTER Data Center work efficiently
for the science and the LTER scientist. I back this by 10 years
of experience working closely with the LNO - I think the next Data
Center can do a better job.<br>
<br>
I have been pushing for a total revamp on how the Data Center and
IM group operates, but I am unsure whether I will succeed with my
push - not too optimistic. As the plans are, I am missing some
critical components. <br>
<br>
In essence, I would be bold about how the Data Center should
operate, and less concerned about maintaining the current status
quo. Some IMs on the LTER IM group feel like I do, but others may
disagree. <br>
<br>
I would enforce coordination where coordination can be attained:
Even though all LTERs are different, there are some common IT
aspects to all LTERs. It would no longer be an option to have 26
architectures (to be maintained) to do the same core functions, in
my view, we would have one common core for all LTERs and then each
LTER would maintain their custom needs. <br>
<br>
The effort saved using a common core infrastructure will be used
to serve LTER science needs -- we would place talent to work with
teams that do interesting science, perhaps favoring those
cross-site and synthesis projects, but taking into account any
LTER projects. <br>
<br>
I also propose a bit different organizational - I would greatly
simplify the diagrams shown in the materials that Mike enclosed.
I would go for a more traditional NSF structure; with a lead PI
and a team of other specialized talented individuals tasked with
accomplishing a set of goals that are proposed by the LTER
community (that is, you) and prioritized by the LTER community. I
would also formally change how LTER IM teams operate - IMs would
contribute to common infrastructure development and upkeep in
their areas of expertise - this would be required.<br>
<br>
Operational tweaks: I am a believer in transparency and openness.
We all work better when there is mutual trust, and one way to
nurture trust is to be as transparent and open as possible.
Simple changes - I would record all meetings, would open those for
participation. Also, we would have an open community process to
proposing Data Center tasks, void of tech-jargon. Also revising
the Data center priorities should be community weighted (think the
We the people White house initiative), and with the oversight of
the NSF (under cooperative agreement). However, the Data Center
group will have the complete independence on how to accomplish the
goals concerted by the community. This also contrast with the
proposed model, which operates more like it does now ( an even
more IM-heavy NISAC like group ).<br>
<br>
Technologically speaking I am proposing re-use of open source
products backed by a strong community. I would have a team that
re-uses and customizes the best synergistic modern products.
Contrast this with the proposed ideas: revive custom in-house
solutions which in my view are too expensive on the short and long
term and may not have served LTER science needs as expected. I
would revise the PASTA effort -- see how much is being used as it
is. I would re-visit the PASTA components of the current
implementation that do not serve the purpose of solving actual
LTER science needs, and divest time and efforts into practical
scientific projects. <br>
<br>
This is a summary, I have more detailed plans, but I wanted to
emphasize my differences with what you see in the PDF and PPT
docs. I am tempted on presenting these ideas on an alternative
proposal, but I am still hopeful that all IMs can agree in one
common plan. I have been successful in stopping some aspects of
the proposed IM plans that did not make sense to me, like having
an independent financial institution manage the grant, etc. In any
case, these will all unfold by the time the ASM comes ( a month?
), Saran would like to resolve ASAP, as whatever the next Data
Center is, will have to roll out ops by Spring next year.<br>
<br>
I am all ears about what you think the Data Center should be. I
know Diane's group was successful in splitting the communications
from data center ops, and I am sure Diane's group have some
specific results in mind. If you want to devote some time in a
phone conversation or email, all the better -- the Data Center
should work for you, and you have a voice. <br>
<br>
Depending on the outcome of the Data Center, I may want to present
a plan for my involvement involved with MCM-V in terms that
preserve what you want to do and the cost that you are looking for
(~$50k). This should come around September or October. <br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
Inigo<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 7/26/15 10:10 PM, Michael Gooseff wrote:<br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>-- <br><br>Inigo San Gil<br>+1 505 277 2625<br><a
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Ecological Research Network<br>mcm-pi mailing list<br><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mcm-pi@lternet.edu">mcm-pi@lternet.edu</a><br></div></div>
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<font color="#9FA2A5"><span style="padding-left:6px">July 26, 2015
10:10 PM</span></font></div></div></div>
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Hi all,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Please see the info below (and attached) in regards to a
new approach to a Network Data Center approach that is coming from the
Network IM community. Everyone is seeking a state of Kumbaya, but no
one is quite sure the attached plans will achieve
it.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">(My email address replaced Diane’s on several network
lists, but not this one. My apologies for the late delivery of info.) </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><u class="">Please let me know what you think about this
plan</u>. Peter is largely asking for the lead PIs to convey the
thoughts and reactions from their sites and I have a teleconf set up
with him for Thursday of this coming week to discuss.
<i class="">If you could get me any thoughts before Thursday, I would
appreciate it</i>. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Inigo - this includes you, of course!</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Best,</div>
<div class="">Mike</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">P.S. - Bonus points to the first person who understands
the reference to Kumbaya in the message above!</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div class="">-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-</div>
<div class="">Michael Gooseff, Associate Professor</div>
<div class="">Institute of Arctic and Alpine Research</div>
<div class="">Civil, Architectural, and Environmental Engineering</div>
<div class="">University of Colorado</div>
<div class="">Boulder, CO 80309-0450</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class=""
href="mailto:michael.gooseff@colorado.edu">michael.gooseff@colorado.edu</a></div>
<div class="">web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class=""
href="http://goosefflab.weebly.com/">http://goosefflab.weebly.com</a> </div>
</div>
phone: 303.735.5333</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
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</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div>_______________________________________________<br>Long Term
Ecological Research Network<br>mcm-pi mailing list<br><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mcm-pi@lternet.edu">mcm-pi@lternet.edu</a><br></div></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><pre wrap="">Cristina Takacs-Vesbach
Associate Professor
Department of Biology
University of New Mexico
MSC03 2020
Albuquerque, NM 87131
Phone: <span __postbox-detected-content="__postbox-detected-phone" class="__postbox-detected-content __postbox-detected-phone" style="display: inline; font-size: inherit; padding: 0pt;">505-277-3418</span>
Fax: <span __postbox-detected-content="__postbox-detected-phone" class="__postbox-detected-content __postbox-detected-phone" style="display: inline; font-size: inherit; padding: 0pt;">505-277-0304</span>
website: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://pearl3.unm.edu/site/main.html">http://pearl3.unm.edu/site/main.html</a>
Fedex and DHL Shipping Address:
University of New Mexico
Castetter Hall Room 133
Albuquerque, NM 87131
</pre> </span><span></span></div>
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