<div dir="ltr">Hi Eda,<div><br></div><div>I don't think that what you suggest is a compromise. Rather, I think that is exactly what is being proposed. The question is whether we want to continue this process and to work more on creating a system we think could work, or do we not want to pursue a decentralized network IM structure. </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><pre cols="72"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="3">--</font></pre><pre cols="72"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Dan Bahauddin
<i>Information Manager
Cedar Creek Ecosystem Science Reserve
2660 Fawn Lake Dr. NE
East Bethel, MN 55005
Office: 612-301-2603
Fax: 612-301-2626</i></font></pre></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 4:05 PM, Inigo San Gil <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:isangil@lternet.edu" target="_blank">isangil@lternet.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div><br>
Precisely the reason that I need more time and discussion.<br>
<br>
Incidentally, Ghastil - The RFP process may not be a bad thing.
Would it result in a "Different" Data Center? Yes, more than
likely. Does "Different" mean "Bad" ? To me it does not - in
fact, the more I see the same old stuff, im stuck in ground hog
day, the more an open RFP becomes attractive. Whoever comes with
ideas will not come with as much baggage as we do (except certain
chap that allegedly expressed interest on the RFP<br>
<br>
I would rather see new ideas expressed from within the IMC and
LTER. As I stated several times, I would be much bolder than
continuity, and less apprehensive of change. When I thing about
the Data Center, I use two steering principles:<br>
<br>
1) An applied center that serves the advancement of science at
LTER <br>
<br>
2) An efficient group integrated with the IMC and other
enthusiastic members of the LTER community and beyond. That has
explicit commitments with the IMC and viceversa. <br>
<br>
By "viceversa", I mean I would spell out what expectations come
from the LTER sites towards the Data Center tasks. During the
Monday morning session of the ESIP meeting ( while internet could
maintain an external connection from the Asilomar resort ), there
were some good ideas towards that, but I find that without
explicit commitments all that lacks teeth. I would spell out how
this would work. Putting money on the table is not enough to get
engagement: we know cause the LNO nicely tried that to the tune of
beaucoup of $, with lackluster outcomes (I thought it was a great
idea too)<br>
<br>
I would like to see that aspect hardened - the committed
distributed model - not the wishful thinking, let's leave it to
Kumbaya. It does not matter how we feel about the feasibility of
changing the way the IMC operates: Saying no on the basis that we
don't think it can be done is the actual obstacle to progress. <br>
<br>
But the other weakness that will jeopardize this is the Science
service aspect. Whatever happens to open the ears of the Data
Center to the needs of the LTER network ? I'd like to see a "We
the People" model for the LTER data center. Read this blog post
(<a href="https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2015/07/28/how-we-are-changing-way-we-respond-petitions" target="_blank">https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2015/07/28/how-we-are-changing-way-we-respond-petitions</a>)
and perhaps see it in action at
<a href="https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/" target="_blank">https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/</a>. Please somebody tell me we
cannot do it. <br>
<br>
Rubber-stamping a proposal before we even read a flushed out
product, you are telling me that what we are voting is on : Are we
(the IMC with the guidance of Mark) able to put together a
competent proposal that has the buy-in of most people, and can
excite the LTER community ? <br>
<br>
In the absence of solid statistical data to answer that, Why don't
we have a survey where we gather the early feedback of LTERlings,
see how they react to what they see in those diagrams, etc ? <br>
<br>
Do you have access to honest feedback from your PIs ? <br>
<br>
I do not think is a good idea to force LTER (that is, all LTER
folks) buy into the 'next data center' without the opportunity to
contribute, to provide some feedback and even involvement. See,
that outcome may result on aggravated resentment, and finger
pointing, and well, that would be exactly the opposite of trust
and collaborative work we are trying to garner here. <br>
<br>
In practice, Saying "Yes" is to express our desire to close the
door to a competitive RFP, and charge ourselves with the
definition of the next Data Center. I do not think the ability to
do it should be into question, the better question would be, "Is
this the model we want to shoot for the next LTER Data Center"?
Unfortunately, that Nimo is too green to be subjected to a
Yes/No. Hence the sought delay. I mean I am hoping that the
reason Nimo looks like it reads is because is too green, otherwise
instead of "Finding Nemo", the better guiding movie would be
"Groundhog day", Im sure we can find an ad-hoc title to the GHD
abbreviation.<br>
<br>
Thanks for the discussion,<br>
Inigo <br><span class="">
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 7/30/15 12:41 PM, Philip Tarrant wrote:<br>
</span></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Dear
colleagues,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Let me do my
best to address the comments resulting from my earlier
e-mail.<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">I think the
timing of the vote is appropriate given where we are in this
process. If you follow the link you will see that the text
of the vote is as follows:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="color:windowtext">‘As the
Information Manager representing my LTER site I recommend
that we should proceed with developing a proposal to the
National Science Foundation to manage LTER information
management needs using the "NIMO” model’<u></u><u></u></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">We committed to
Saran Twombly fairly early on that we would indicate over
the summer if we were willing and able to propose a solution
driven by the IM community. This vote meets that commitment.
As a community we have already put in significant effort and
I don’t think we should expend any more energy until we know
people are in favor of the idea. We need the vote in advance
of our annual meeting because the outcome of the vote will
significantly affect how we spend our time next month. We
have a great opportunity with us all being together to
continue developing these ideas with full IMC input. I think
that opportunity will be wasted if we don’t prepare
accordingly.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">The proposal
development will follow if people vote for this work to
continue. While I think the core of any proposal has to
include continuity for existing services, it does not
exclude us from also proposing new ideas. We just aren’t
there yet. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">A NO vote will
result in me advising Saran that the IMC is not interested
in managing the LTER network data management services. By us
declining this opportunity I assume it will lead to an open
RFP inviting interested organizations to submit proposals.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Hopefully, this
answers your immediate concerns. If you feel unable to
commit one way or the other there is the option to abstain.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">On a general
note, if anyone still has questions feel free to give me a
call to discuss. I am on <a href="tel:480-727-7860" value="+14807277860" target="_blank">480-727-7860</a>.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">--<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Philip
Tarrant</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#404040">Director,
Informatics and Technology | Senior Sustainability
Scientist</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#404040">Julie
Ann Wrigley Global Institute of Sustainability | Arizona
State University</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#404040"><br>
</span><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:white;background:#38761d">
Sustainable data - use, preserve, re-use </span></i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:white"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</span><div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> im-rep
[<a href="mailto:im-rep-bounces@lists.lternet.edu" target="_blank">mailto:im-rep-bounces@lists.lternet.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Inigo San Gil<span class=""><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 30, 2015 10:03 AM<br>
</span><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:im-rep@lists.lternet.edu" target="_blank">im-rep@lists.lternet.edu</a></span></p><div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [LTER-im-rep] Vote to move forward
with IM data management exercise<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Hi,<br>
<br>
I do not think I have enough time to revise the last
additions to the work to vote confidently.
<br>
<br>
As I remember the work, the way is presented has a main
focus on continuity. I would like to see a more exciting
proposal that includes the opinions of the community we work
for. This is just a handful of us chiming some, and well,
judging by what I hear, not so fresh ideas.<br>
<br>
Therefore, I think asking for a vote is a bit premature. We
could get a better proposal out there, at least, we can get
something out I can defend vehemently, as it is (or as I
remember it), not so much.
<br>
<br>
Can you push the vote down to the ASM or at least towards
the 3rd week of August ?<br>
<br>
Some more notes - please pay attention:<br>
<br>
Also, I missed the 'last week VTC' - the bad practice of not
announcing the date and time and links is really hurting my
schedule. I have many more things in my plate, like many of
us. It is quite simple, and I told the group several times
to include a date and a time and a link at least (it is
simple metadata, EML not needed).<br>
<br>
There is no mention that a majority "Yes" vote would also
mean that you will tell Saran that we (IMs) are behind this
proposed model, and pave forward to what would be the LNO
Data Center for the next few years. I think this should be
noted in the list below.<br>
<br>
There is no mention what a "No" vote would imply. Encourage
Saran to let a competitive process to ensue? Please
elaborate.
<br>
<br>
By reading the reactions of my PIs to the PPTx and PDF that
was circulated at EB, I can tell you my PIs feel this
proposal would benefit from serious changes in the general
direction as well. In essence (there are more details to
it), these PIs would love to see this a science-oriented
service.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Inigo<br>
<br>
I On 7/30/15 9:23 AM, Philip Tarrant wrote:<span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear colleagues,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The link below is now active for the vote
on developing a proposal for discussion with NSF.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/MWDH555" target="_blank">https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/MWDH555</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Please consider the following when
voting:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span>1)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span>This vote is in support (or
not) of the general NIMO model presented during the VTCs
last week.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span>2)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span>The size and composition of
the governance committee is still subject to change and we
will continue to collect feedback from IMs and the EB on
specifically what this should look like.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span>3)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span>The election model is not set
in stone, and again we should continue to develop that to
ensure we have sensible levels of IM input and
representation.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span>4)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span>If we get a “Yes” vote, we
will devote a large part of our annual meeting on August 30
to developing this model further. So, you still have an
important opportunity to contribute to the piece that you
find most interesting. Further opportunities will follow, I
am sure! In particular, we should focus on the processes for
collecting input from both our community and the scientists
we serve, as well as planning and prioritization mechanisms.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The link will be active until midnight
next Wednesday, August 5 (in reality 8am PDT Thursday, but
midnight sounds more dramatic :)), to give everyone time to
vote. However, please do make sure you vote as we want a
full IMC response.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you for your support and
cooperation.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Philip
Tarrant</span></b><br>
<b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#404040">Director,
Informatics and Technology | Senior Sustainability
Scientist</span></b><br>
<img src="cid:part2.05080408.05060200@lternet.edu" alt="http://sustainability.asu.edu/docs/gios/signature/images/logo.jpg" border="0" height="62" width="302"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#7c7c7c"><br>
</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#404040">P.O.
Box 875402 | Tempe, Arizona | 85287-5402<br>
PH: <a href="tel:480-727-7860" value="+14807277860" target="_blank">480-727-7860</a> | Main: <a href="tel:480-965-2975" value="+14809652975" target="_blank">480-965-2975</a> | </span><a href="http://sustainability.asu.edu/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#990033">sustainability.asu.edu</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Long Term Ecological Research Network<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>im-rep mailing list<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:im-rep@lternet.edu" target="_blank">im-rep@lternet.edu</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<pre>-- <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre>Inigo San Gil<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="tel:%2B1%20505%20277%202625" value="+15052772625" target="_blank">+1 505 277 2625</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=foIppL4AAAAJ&hl=en" target="_blank">http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=foIppL4AAAAJ&hl=en</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
</div></div></div>
</blockquote><div><div class="h5">
<br>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Inigo San Gil
<a href="tel:%2B1%20505%20277%202625" value="+15052772625" target="_blank">+1 505 277 2625</a>
<a href="http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=foIppL4AAAAJ&hl=en" target="_blank">http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=foIppL4AAAAJ&hl=en</a></pre>
</div></div></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>